Author Topic: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)  (Read 68595 times)

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2011, 11:46:35 PM »
good point Gopher.. and Mike too.. so thats why the cost uplift on the bigger feeders is kept to a minimum to make the purchase price acceptable and at the same time not to occupy to many slots!! perfect balance.

the VIVO feeders have the same internals. so the price increase is to cover the cost of the extra aluminium. the build time is the same. so that way the customer gets the best deal.. We price our feeders so that they are affordable.  Also you can swap them from machine to machine and all the params are transported so that the parts in them are ready to roll what ever VIVO they are placed on...

fcb

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I remember asking a company why their vibe feeder was so expensive - they said it was so they could offer a big discount on it...

I've gone for banked feeders as I feel:
1. Most of my customers will need at least 10 lanes of 8mm.
2. It's the only way to get the feeders in at something between £50-100 per lane/equivalent (my target - not an aspersion on other brands!)
3. The pitch on singles would be (at least) 12mm, I think 16mm is more common.

NB: I've considered that dumb feeders like madell can be made for less than £50/lane..

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2011, 12:06:29 AM »
Ben you must be an elephant with a memory like that! :D

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2011, 12:12:41 AM »
Ben you must be an elephant with a memory like that! :D
I think I've been careful not say which companies or hint at which companies have said/quoted what.

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2011, 12:13:36 AM »
its fairly obvious…. ;D

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2011, 12:15:15 AM »
its fairly obvious…. ;D
That'll be the Porsche jibe then.

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2011, 12:16:18 AM »
No… well before that….

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2011, 12:23:48 AM »
davidc: So for the record, do you think there is no market for a quality sub £10k machine?

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2011, 12:33:20 AM »
well….how many sub 10k machines are there?

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #69 on: April 07, 2011, 08:39:36 AM »
I don't know if the Maddels quite break that barrier but they are lieing little ****, look up videos for SMTmax and its prety clear they have just rebadged the entire range. Maddel don't even try in their own videos, there is chinese on the buttons for starters.

Mike

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2011, 09:09:38 AM »
I don't doubt there is a market, probably more so than when the RV came out, although I doubt there is any way to assess the size of it without just doing it. Just because here is nothing out there at the moment doesn't mean there is no demand (although it might!). Used RVs still seem to sell, so some people are  buying in this price range.

At the lower end of the market , the purchasing criteria are likely to be very different to those for higher-end machines  - e.g. people wanting to do stuff in-house for flexibility and fast  turnaround rather than production cost.
However to make it commercially viable  may need a more novel  business model and some clever thinking.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2011, 09:20:34 AM »
A tie in with david, for a good price on a a vivo when or if they outgrow yours ;), a feeder base module that lets you use davids feeders............
A manual placer that uses your feeders
An 'assisted' version of the same.

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2011, 09:20:52 AM »
I don't know if the Maddels quite break that barrier but they are lieing little ****, look up videos for SMTmax and its prety clear they have just rebadged the entire range. Maddel don't even try in their own videos, there is chinese on the buttons for starters.

I'm not clear on Madell - are they related to SMTmax, are they the same company? Also, they do seem to have *alot* of different model numbers and there appears to be some reuse of model numbers (or perhaps it's just some are raw metal, others anodised). I've seen some very similar units also with yet another supplier name on it (can't remember who).

From a price POV it's hard to see why their (Madell) units are so expensive - they don't look like good value-for-money even at £10k, although I've heard that they do work.

As far as our machines price - I'm quite comfortable with the <£10K point; we can increase speed/feeders/board size later for more £ if we want to.

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #73 on: April 07, 2011, 09:28:05 AM »
A tie in with david, for a good price on a a vivo when or if they outgrow yours ;), a feeder base module that lets you use davids feeders............
A manual placer that uses your feeders
An 'assisted' version of the same.
Hmm, I'm sure if we are successful with ours we will see a shrunken version of the Vivo (400-500mm) and a banked feeder block for £?. Which will then prove that I was right and needn't have bothered going to all the trouble. ;D

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #74 on: April 07, 2011, 10:19:01 AM »
Tsssssssss! He's not looking that interested and anyway he's busy doing my 696 quote and a proforma for some nozzles........

Not that I'm a huge fan of rabid capitalism but there is the general rule that you charge what the market will stand ( we don't all live by it) and £20k+ easily pays for itself with even quite low volumes which means the market can stand it. Would Vivo's tech really scale down by 1/2 and would it be worth David's time selling something that has a lower margin for him when he seems quite busy enough with what he has?