Author Topic: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)  (Read 68605 times)

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2011, 10:27:23 PM »
Thanks all those that have contributed so far.

I've got some prototyping going on with a new feeder design, when a bit closer I'm sure they'll be a bunch more q's.

fcb

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2011, 07:04:44 PM »
Got delivery today of new solenoid sample (custom made) for the new feeder design.  For the p/type we have selected a design similar (thanks to all those contributors earlier) to the Versatronic units but with:

10 lane solenoid/pins/stepper driven linear mechanism.
Simplified design with only two main CNC machined parts (intrinsically aligned)
Individual cover tape peel mechanisms per lane (8mm std - designed to mix and match 16mm etc..) sizes.
Tape pull, rather than push.

Servicing of feeder blocks should be VERY straightforward, and if pins wear-out then they can be replaced quickly (easily). Also, you should be able to change an individual lane easily without removing the feeder bank.
At present the lane pitch is 12mm (up from the Versatronic's slim 10mm).

We should have a fully working p/type in the fairly near future, which I would welcome criticism on.



Mike

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2011, 07:53:15 PM »
What would be nice is a few adjustable lanes that could do 12-32mm as required, either with movable guides or alternate rails.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2011, 10:39:13 PM »
Are there many adjustable feeders out there? Only machine I can find that has such a desirable feature is the Versatec C5, which seems odd given that almost nobody wants to rent you a feeder either so if you want something just the once it really has to pay.

I can see that extra 2mm being a great help with the fiddlyness

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2011, 10:51:33 PM »
ermm Feeders… so there are good bits and bad bits.. Adjustable….Hmmmmm wonder why no one does them… its cos at £190-£250 its really better to buy them… and know that they will work..

I am happy to rent feeders for the vivo… its not a problem if thats what you want.. ill do it for 12,16,24 and above.




davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2011, 10:57:04 PM »
 And this forum, well, it's been a sanity saver, especially for a product that's unloved by its manufacturer.

[/quote]
[/quote]

To clarify. its is not unloved by the manufacturer. At that company ceased trading in 2002.  Paul Mills who designed the RV put his heart soul and finances in to the RV. Unfortunately too many people thought that the ongoing support and  development of the machine should be done for free.. And weren't prepared to back the maker of the machine when times got tight…So it left him with little option. VSMT put a further 8 years in to backing it up from then on.. I don't think unloved can be aimed at the RV at all. its a great machine and still is.. Vivo is quite happy to work with  any… Any … RV user who wants to upgrade.

in 2002 the rv4 was £24,000 now the VIVO is £28000. it is faster, quicker to set up and more powerful…
and compatible with RV programs.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2011, 10:58:56 PM »
Yours may be that acceptable sum, but while I haven't done my quote requests yet, I do recall the gargantuan prices some of the larger feeders were on a certain other machine and indeed the prices 2nd hand on Shawline. If all say a 32mm feeder is doing is putting down 1 SM connector on a batch of 100 boards, the tweezer will win.

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2011, 11:03:53 PM »
ok lets clarify.. intelligent feeders.. no setup during run , placement and component data stored in the feeder.

8mm              £190 handles any 8mm tape from 0201
12mm            £230
16mm            £260
24mm            £290
any vibe unit   £250

go compare…. :D

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2011, 11:05:01 PM »
Interesting, were those that paid (as we did for some years) a rare breed? TBH I don't think not paying was even considered until what you were able to offer changed and that's not your fault it's just the poor thing is old. For the money the machine gave us proper SM capability that is essential to I think every single sub-con customer we have on our books and a good proportion of our own product. Without it I doubt I'd have a job, I hope fcb's machine can do the same for someone else, in fact I can think of someone who came to see us once who would be better off with that than attempting to sub-con a product that was impossible to cost.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2011, 11:06:48 PM »
yeah see those are sensible prices, I seem to remember holding a price list from someone else where 24mm ran north of £1000

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2011, 11:10:15 PM »
or if you went with a 2nd user mydete machine you might find a 24mm feeder was around £4K im told.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2011, 11:13:50 PM »
And I want at least 3 and preferably 5+, oh the pain, yeah won't be doing that.
 Anyhow we should stop hijacking this thread, I have sleep to do, got to keep the mind fresh for grilling those suits on Tuesday about their shiny machines. Top question what with all you guy making machines and feeders that top out at 12mm? I saw a teardown of an early Apple from 1981 or so the other day and even it had SM Elec's its not like they're ground breaking.

davidc

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2011, 11:17:17 PM »
Interesting, were those that paid (as we did for some years) a rare breed?

TBH those that did commit made the right move.. They saw the importance of the product to their business.. not everyone has the time to DIY the machine..

Mike

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2011, 11:23:13 PM »
In terms of adjustable feeders, it would make a lot of sense for the larger, less common sizes, maybe 16mm & over. The main reason larger feeders are more expensive is that fewer are made - the build cost isn't going to be much more (unless they're machined out of solid block of the tape width!), so the economies of scale making a single unit that could cover 16-32mm may work out pretty well.

Gopher

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Re: Feeders, new hardware (split from Head wiping tapes)
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2011, 11:41:30 PM »
Presumably it would occupy the space of it's largest setting regardless so you would not want too many?