Camera 3 setup -calibration

[smt-user]

Hi to forum

    I'm trying to setup a second hand RV4 i bought. I'm having difficulty troubleshooting and verifying camera 3 operation .
Can somebody please explain me the following.
1. What is the difference between factory calibration and calibration in place rvplace.
    When is each setting used and how ?.How is the calibration stored ?.
   As i checked there is posibility for movement ,focus .How do we calibrate all these .
2. How do we check correct operation of the camera
3. how do we adjust threshold .I only see a cloud of measurements getting smaller by changing threshold .
  What should i expect there ?.

Running the first machine tests i see deviations from parameters in cdf . I also see components recognized with large
deviation among them . I try to place only 0603 .Some are recognized as small ,other normal , other large .Is this normal ?.
I have no experience in smd placement machines and i'm quite frustrated as there is no troubleshooting or setup guide.   

Any help will be appreciated since i feel lost here .

[Gopher]

Anything generally known as to calibration is discussed in other threads including the difference between entering calibration through either of the 2 menus. I would suggest you locate and read those discussions, IIRC camera 3 is the fiducial camera, currently the community has no information on calibrating this or the machine itself, only cameras 1 & 2.
When testing a CDF you adjust the threshold between the 2 extremes at which it can see the device (just keep trying) then choose something nice and safe between those 2, assuming you didn't buy this machine from a total git the other parameters should be reasonably OK and you will just need to tweak the threshold to account for your lighting. Again this is something someone has explained quite nicely in another thread and its also in the manual if you have it....
Within the CDF you give tolerance to for how far off-centre a pick is acceptable and also how far out the vision'd size can be from the theoretical, if this is 25% quite large variations will of course be seen and accepted.

[smt-user]

Gopher

To be more specific .I want to place 0603 resistors .As i see the head goes to the feeder .
The resistor is picked up. After that the problem i see is errors in dimensioning . Xdimension is 44-45  .
Ydimension sometimes is  50 ,other times 80 , other times 45.Why is there so large difference . Can you
describe in detail the procedure of calibration for camera 1 which as i understand makes most the work recognizing
components .I dont use camera 2 (fixed one) .
Can you describe the procedure since i'm newbie .
The manual i got is a 37 page one .Is this correct or the machine was sold with more details include ?.

[Gopher]

Sounds like the manual.
There is a detailed calibration document linked in another thread http://electricstuff.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=cebc0aa7d5f02977974cd3b0c6e236f8&PHPSESSID=68f73bef5739373aad3ae95bb0e04a8f&topic=104.msg590#msg590, it could be worth trying. You might also want to check your blob size and threshold numbers, if the  lob size is too low of threshold too sensitive the camera will pick up noise or dirt and incorporate that into its image. Blob size should be 1/3 of the smallest dimension which on 0603 would be 10. Everybody's threshold numbers are very different so you will need to find a number that works for you.

[Mike]

If you look at the screen when it is imaging the part, it should  be fairly obvious what is going wrong - you should see a white background with thwe edge of the part outlined, maybe also outline round the pads. There will be a few pixels' worth of noise around the edges, which is normal.
(I have a feeling that display of the image when placing is optional - if you're not seeing any image this may be why - there is a fairly obvious option somewhere).
If the threshold is set way out, you will see a greyscale image instead of the outlined one - this can help identify issues like focus etc.
Remember the cameras output composite video, so if all else fails you can connect a video monitor or TV directly to check that things like focus and mirror alignment (and cleanliness) are OK.

There is an occasional failure mode I sometimes see which I think is due to the image capture board getting the interlaced frames the wrong way round, leading to distorted and skewed images. This seems to be related to the order of powering up and/or running RV Place. The sequence that seems to avoid it is power up pc, power up RV, run RVPlace. 

[smt-user]

I have finally managed to start the machine.As it seems there was threshold error in camera but now things are
beginning to run . I haven't used camera 2 but in the weekend i will try to use it too.
My question is ,after making the first panels, why  in some boards in the same panel the components  placed correctly and in other boards there is a small offset ?. This lack of consistency is puzzling
Another question i have is regarding fiducials .The program recognizes 2 diagonally located fiducials across the board corners usually.
What about these  extra ones that are placed near the tqfp chips .How does the machine uses these and how i guide the machine to recognize these extra ones ?.
Finally  regarding splicing tape . What do you use when we insert a new reel so we attach the new plastic tape to the old one .Is there something special and where do we get it ?. I don't wish to join the old reel to the new one just the plastic tape that sits on top of the components .
   

[Mike]

Another question i have is regarding fiducials .The program recognizes 2 diagonally located fiducials across the board corners usually.
What about these  extra ones that are placed near the tqfp chips .How does the machine uses these and how i guide the machine to recognize these extra ones ?.

AFAIK the RV software doesn't support local fiducials - I think there is a greyed-out tickbox in the CDF editor

Finally  regarding splicing tape . What do you use when we insert a new reel so we attach the new plastic tape to the old one .Is there something special and where do we get it ?. I don't wish to join the old reel to the new one just the plastic tape that sits on top of the components .
   

Use 4mm double-sided sticky tape - See this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3gyUs08oi0&feature=player_embedded

Using this tape is also much easier than the original rubber band method of fixing the cover tape to an empty reel.

[smt-user]

Mike
      Thank you for the video .It certainly solved many hours i spent during my first setup. It is a very practical way of not throwing components and zero cost solution.
Now regarding fiducials do you think that after calibrating the machine i can place tqfp or bga  without extra fiducial near the chip?. Yesterday i made 4x4 panel. Boards (1,1),(2,1) were ok but not (1,2) or (2,2) . The problem was not that the offset was wrong since i show different offsets in each board . SO in your experience if the machine is adjusted can it handle .5mm pitch 208pins  tqfp and large .8 mm bga .
Now regarding trays  have a 4x3 waffle and a 6x12 waffle.I think the only solution is a vertical arrangement between them in front or the pcb but how do you fix them on the base plate ?.
A final question is that in park position the pickup head when free hits a vibration tray .Is this ok ?
Sorry for the so many questions but i have a lot of unknown things i must get familiar with .

[Mike]

Mike
      Thank you for the video .It certainly solved many hours i spent during my first setup. It is a very practical way of not throwing components and zero cost solution.
Now regarding fiducials do you think that after calibrating the machine i can place tqfp or bga  without extra fiducial near the chip?. Yesterday i made 4x4 panel. Boards (1,1),(2,1) were ok but not (1,2) or (2,2) . The problem was not that the offset was wrong since i show different offsets in each board . SO in your experience if the machine is adjusted can it handle .5mm pitch 208pins  tqfp and large .8 mm bga .
Now regarding trays  have a 4x3 waffle and a 6x12 waffle.I think the only solution is a vertical arrangement between them in front or the pcb but how do you fix them on the base plate ?.
A final question is that in park position the pickup head when free hits a vibration tray .Is this ok ?
Sorry for the so many questions but i have a lot of unknown things i must get familiar with .

Others can probably comment better on accuracy performance - I generally find I have to give 0.5mm pitch parts an occasional nudge into place after placing. i don't know to what extent this is dependent on calibration. I do often find  that a job specific board offset is needed, which i think is due to the calibration errors at the locations where the fiducials are.

[Mike]

Now regarding trays  have a 4x3 waffle and a 6x12 waffle.I think the only solution is a vertical arrangement between them in front or the pcb but how do you fix them on the base plate ?.

I usually stick them down with double-sided tape. If you use them a lot it would be worth making up some trays with magnets, but be sure to use shielded magnets (like speaker magnets) as some parts are magnetic and can flip over if there's a magnet underneath.

A final question is that in park position the pickup head when free hits a vibration tray .Is this ok ?

It should  always lift the head before moving,  but it will drop it when powered down, so you don't want anything underneath.

[SteveW]

I also run a vib feeder in the dropzone, and feel bad about rattling the placer head when it's parked. A bit of neoprene foam tape on the feeder makes it quiet when it's dropped. I like to think that it's vibrating the wires in the arm a bit less, but that may be wishful.
(I'd run a proper feeder there, but it's borderline unreachable in my installation).

[phonoplug]

SO in your experience if the machine is adjusted can it handle .5mm pitch 208pins  tqfp and large .8 mm bga .

I doubt you will be successful in placing 208 pin QFPs. I know the package you mean - I've used a EP9302 ARM chip and XC3S400 FPGA both in this package. Its about the largest QFP package out there and the biggest challenge is not actually the 0.5mm pitch but the size of the device. The rotational accuracy must be very sharp to place it, and I just don't think the RV would be up to it, even before you consider the absolute positional accuracy.

As for BGAs, I've not attempted them with an RV before, but its probably at the limits of its capabilities. Depends how big the thing overall is. I build a board that has a 1152 ball device, but I subcontract the placement of that part - I chicken out! Partly because its an FPGA that costs a grand!