Author Topic: IC stick feeders?  (Read 30044 times)

fcb

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IC stick feeders?
« on: April 06, 2011, 07:14:15 PM »
Hi All,

Thanks for the help/comments/suggestions so far regarding issues with tape feeders. I'm now beginning to think about IC tube feeders, and would (again) like to hear about peoples experiences/preferences/suggestions with stick feeders.  I have Versatronics vibratory feeders myself, but really not a fan of these (although they DO work).

Other ideas are possibly belt feed or air driven or air/plunger driven. Not sure I like these any more than vibro.


Mike

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 07:51:18 PM »
The nice thing about vibration is it's simple, and a single feeder can do a bunch of tubes - the trick is getting the 'exit' area right so a chip gets to a consistent position without pile-ups. The RV ones are pretty hopeless.
A non-optimal exit zone can be useable by tweaking the vibration level, but this is a problem if different lanes need different amounts of shake. Maybe a way to adjust vibration level per-part might be useful, as well as stopping the vib when not using the feeder.
You certainly want to be able to load a bunch of tubes of the same part - not sure if the RV software supports this.

Never seen air-puff in action but I suspect it may have consistency problems, not to mention higher cost/complexity - I can see more downsides than upsides compared to vibs.
 
Bear in mind that there are a lot of different shapes/sizes of tubed parts.
I know many subcontractors won't use tubes on machines and always re-tape, but not sure to what extent this is for better picking or fewer downtime reloading.

 

davidc

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 10:16:19 PM »
hi Mike the Rv does support multiples of the same device in the vibe feeder and in the reels too. if one lane runs out it will pick frm an alternative lane.

in reality the vibe on the RV works very well…. more complex options are just that more complex and more expensive yet not really that much better. ::)   belt drive is probably the way forward but then again air is good provided its well metered, also you can just get them in tape .  or pick them up loose too..

Gopher

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 10:33:57 PM »
Yeah as Mike says Vib probably works just fine if the exit/landing area is just right, a common solution seems to be a specially machined bit that clips on the end, essemtec and I think Dima seem to have a catalogue of these, There shouldn't need to be too many tho' while there are a whole raft of weird shapes out there its the common ones people are going to want to be the most hassle free.
As I build up a portfolio of machines to get quotes on I am pretty much resigned to including a stick feeder in there but had I the luxury I wouldn't have one at all.

Mike

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 10:39:48 PM »
in reality the vibe on the RV works very well….
Once you get the end of the tueb hacked correctly, yes, but the shapes milled into the plate aren't much use. The biggest thing you need is an adjustable endstop - this would cope all lengths of SO's at least. The optimum would probably be some sort of channel where both the width and endstop were adjustable.
Quote
The Rv does support multiples of the same device in the vibe feeder and in the reels too. if one lane runs out it will pick frm an alternative lane.
ISTR you mentioning this a while ago before I was familiar with the software, but how do you actually set this up? When you allocate a part to a feeder, it's no longer available to allocate to a second one.
 

Gopher

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 10:43:08 PM »
I wondered that too ;), but then I just tip more in the back of the tube and that works for me.

davidc

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 10:45:12 PM »
hi.. right everyone..

what you do is load all the parts in RVsetup. so they are allocated. then you remove the feeders from the allocated area.. so the parts become available to load again. then you load alternative feeders and allocate the parts again,  this  means the part number is loaded in to multiple feeders. you the double click those feeder from the list and you have the part in 2 locations!

with  a single feeder you just copy the lane from one position to another… simples!

Gopher

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 10:51:16 PM »
Doh, damn those meerkats! Bet that was in the training session all those years ago too.

davidc

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2011, 10:54:18 PM »
it was but no one ever listened.. so we have learnt from that. :)

With the VIVO we do  a lot of it online and its all saved in AVI files. so you cant forget.

today we got a customer running with a PCB with no FIds on it.  All done over the net… technology is so good.


VIVO... :)

Gopher

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 11:08:35 PM »
Oh I listened but its hard to listen and take notes, for instance I have an incomprehensible set of scrawl about the calibration menu...

davidc

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 11:13:01 PM »
if you guys want i will do a training /questions day £100 a head.. anything you want to know.. list of suppliers how too… you tell me what you want to know. We can do it at our place in aylesbury.

its up to you.  this is a one time offer.  We have so much VIVO stuff going on..but i don't want to leave people behind..

Gopher

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 11:14:56 PM »
Shhhhhh someone will see that, machine no worky = new one.

davidc

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 11:25:57 PM »
i know, but i have worked hard in this business for years and i am not going to change the way i do it now.

We have always tried to do our best and give value for money. So if anyone wants help then commercially we are happy to do it.

its easy to have a pop at some one due to the car they drive ( you know who you are)  but i have stood by every single customer i have supplied a machine too.. perhaps thats why so many of them are investing in the VIVO..  :) And whats nice is that there is a lot of loyalty in the industry but its not blinkered.. there is a company in the midlands who when their machine was playing up went and looked at the lot… they are now running a Vivo 396…the machine stands on its on merits.

Mike

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2011, 11:27:05 PM »
it was but no one ever listened.. so we have learnt from that. :)

With the VIVO we do  a lot of it online and its all saved in AVI files. so you cant forget.
  All done over the net… technology is so good.

Making training videos available might be a useful sales tool - if people can see how easy the machine is to use they may become more interested.

fcb

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Re: IC stick feeders?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 11:29:32 PM »
Thanks so far. I guess (like so many things) there is no magic bullet or perfect solution.  I'm not certain that the (majority) type of customer I envisage for this machine will be prepared to have sticks of IC's T&R'd, I've personally never thought of getting some of my sticks T&R'd, I just don't use enough.

So I guess the tried/tested vibratory feeder is the thing.  As we only have DC available then we will synthesize any drive signal for a vibrator so freq/amplitude and perhaps even waveshape would be easily adjustable via the main menu, so we could certainly 'optimise' things for an IC.  Adjustable end-stops per lane do-able, although width would be a tough ask.