Author Topic: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)  (Read 6383 times)

alanambrose

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2018, 05:03:12 PM »
>>> I just bought a bag of new/old nozzles from Grove. I cant see any markings on them so I do not know which are which. Is there an easy way to tell?

http://anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/Nozzle%20summary.png

Tools are:

1 2 3 4 5
6

- when looking from the front of the machine.

Alan

p.s. I made some more convincing brass and PTFE inserts today, waiting on a few bits before trying the drilling operation again and ordered a few more nozzle blanks.

spiyda

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 08:59:57 PM »
I don't know what the limit is, but a nozzle 1.5mm shorter than spec still works fine on my machine,
as long as it passes the little calibration process after loading, it is fine.
So if I get one with a nick in the side, I just machine the end off.

trev

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2018, 06:56:16 PM »
Thanks. Machine all plugged in and working my way through the manual. Tools in correct positions now helps. Uses Tool5 to calibrate head and comes up with error but I think it's at least using the correct tool to calibrate.

I am testing with the tired looking tools first. Might be in a position soon to test 3d printed tools. What resolution printer do you think is required for nozzles?




Mike

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 10:28:57 PM »
Thanks. Machine all plugged in and working my way through the manual. Tools in correct positions now helps. Uses Tool5 to calibrate head and comes up with error but I think it's at least using the correct tool to calibrate.
It does this apparently randomly, depending on the job - some jobs do it, some not. I suspect it may be related to maximum component size in the job, or some charactistic of a CDF used in the job.
Failing the test doesn't stop it proceeding, it's just annoying. 

trev

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2018, 11:09:08 PM »
Good to know I don't have to lose.days trying to figure out reason for it failing.

Managed to place 0603 resistors. Slowed the machine down to do it and also used tool6 instead of tool1. Might be down to old nozzle but tool6 gave pretty decent results. Getting the odd component too large fail but position  is decent when placement is completed

spiyda

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2018, 01:25:35 PM »
Getting the odd component too large fail but position  is decent when placement is completed

You probably worked this out, but this happens to me when lighting is different, or sometimes with a reel from a different supplier...

exit the place program,
Edit the CDF file for that component
set the "run time test" flag

then when you run the board, the machine will stop after imaging the component and allow you to tweak the values..

Mike

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2018, 01:34:09 AM »
Getting the odd component too large fail but position  is decent when placement is completed

You probably worked this out, but this happens to me when lighting is different, or sometimes with a reel from a different supplier...

exit the place program,
Edit the CDF file for that component
set the "run time test" flag

then when you run the board, the machine will stop after imaging the component and allow you to tweak the values..

BTW "exit place program" just means exit from placing mode, not exiting RVPlace!

If only there was a button you could hit for "Stop placing and edit the CDF of the part you just falled to place.." - that would save sooo much time!

trev

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2018, 11:19:02 AM »
Getting the odd component too large fail but position  is decent when placement is completed

You probably worked this out, but this happens to me when lighting is different, or sometimes with a reel from a different supplier...

exit the place program,
Edit the CDF file for that component
set the "run time test" flag

then when you run the board, the machine will stop after imaging the component and allow you to tweak the values..

I had figured it would be something like that but had not changed it. It certainly needs a tweak. Thanks

alanambrose

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2018, 06:07:30 PM »
>>> What resolution printer do you think is required for nozzles?

For my money, I think professional quality rather than than consumer ones. Also I think, the SLA/DLP processes rather than the SLS laser-sintered powder processes. But interesting question - the hard-to-print features are the end of the tool 1 and 6 nozzles and the lips of the o-ring nozzles - the rest is fairly low spec. The manufacturers are a bit sneaky with their resolution / accuracy specs so I'm finding testing is the only reliable way. It is possible that SLS plus clever manual finishing (drilling, and final turning) will work too. It is possible that DLP may need no finishing. SLA btw is used for jewelry masters and dental.

I'm also testing PTFE rather than brass inserts and also using 3D printer hot-end nozzles as the sharp bit. Sorry this is taking a while, but I think I'm getting there. This is the recent design I sent out (this is a render not a shot of the resulting printed part):

http://anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/Tool%201%20with%200.5mm%20additions.PNG

... the idea is to turn off the extra 0.5mm addition to end up with a v. accurate nozzle end. If this design direction works out OK then it would also make custom nozzles v. easy to do.

A.

Mike

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2018, 02:32:13 AM »
Another option may be a "rough" nozzle, then push a cut-off stainless dispensing needle through the middle to get a clean pick-up tip.

spiyda

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2018, 03:20:11 AM »
UPDATE : I've had a pretty good price quoted from China, so I'll get a few in to try out..
If nothing else it will be a stop gap until complete ones are ready.
and it may be an easy way to get some of the bigger nozzles which will always be lower volume.
(fingers crossed)

A bit of lateral thinking ... It would be interesting to see what the dimensions of something like these is

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/SMT-Nozzle-Samsung-sm421-Nozzle-cn040_60676153839.html

in case they could be easily fitted to what remains of a versatronics nozzle when the end is broken off.

These tips for the CP45 are available to fit almost any component...


ps   

I found a drawing online and it looks like they will fit...   

Cut the samsung nozzle where the spring is
Machine off the pointy part of the versatronics nozzle (leaving the 10mm locating disc in place)

drill a hole in the end of the versatronics nozzle to fit the diameter of the samsung..

a nice tight fit or a dob of glue and bobs your uncle.



according to the drawing...  it is very, very, very close to being a perfect fit

between us we could buy enough to get them at a pretty low price..  and recondition all those old nozzles.

and it would be a lot easier to fit these to a 3d printed versatronics replica

I guess I will have to buy one at full price to try it out




alanambrose

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2018, 01:36:13 PM »
Even better if a Chinese manufacturer can make cheaply to the original design :) ATM these are involving a bit of manual machining work, which isn't great for cost. And yeah, I think cut-off stainless dispensing needle / adapting the pointy bit of other nozzles or 3d printers may be interesting alternatives. I have the bits for adapting a 3D printer nozzle on the workbench, although as it stands it needs a longer 'receiving cup' but which I have printed up already. If anyone has an idea for a source of dispensing needle stock cut to length about ~8mm, please pipe up. BTW it would be easy to print up receptacles for the Samsung nozzles (or any other suitable 'pointy bits' of the right size) if the overall dimensions of the cut-off bit work out. BTW there's a tool height dimension in the rvdata.dat file - although as the existing nozzles are all 15mm, it's anyone's guess whether it works :)

FYI the current state of affairs, and I got the drilling to work late yesterday, at least for 0.6mm drills. New vs. original - the originals are the less mottled ones.
Not too bad but I hope these can be improved:




Let me know if anyone wants to try these out as I'm sure you all have more RVxS experience than me.

Alan

spiyda

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2018, 01:51:39 AM »
Here is what was a broken original nozzle with a Samsung nozzle fitted to it..
the original needs a 3mm hole drilled in the centre,
The Samsung nozzle has to be cut through the middle
then is a push fit in the 3mm hole....!

it works well, except....  the nozzle is about 1mm longer than the original.



If the original plastic locating boss was removed, it would probably work just fine..
as the boss on the samsung nozzle is within 0.2mm the same diameter... 

but that will have to wait until after I have tested Alan's nozzles.  ( which look good )


alanambrose

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2018, 06:25:46 PM »
That's neat, am I right in thinking the Samsung boss will work instead of the RV boss and then the remainder of the nozzle just needs a 3mm hole (I guess only 1mm deep) to receive the 'donor nozzle' :) ?

A.

spiyda

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Re: Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2018, 12:09:12 PM »
That's neat, am I right in thinking the Samsung boss will work instead of the RV boss and then the remainder of the nozzle just needs a 3mm hole (I guess only 1mm deep) to receive the 'donor nozzle' :) ?

A.

Thats it Alan,
they are of course an Alloy rather than plastic, but with the interference fit, I think they will knock off in event of a crash,
that is something I need to test in a controlled way when I finish the present placing run.
Not only that they knock off, but that the hole is re-usable (if that makes sense)


Your No 1 nozzle has now placed a thousand components and seems to be holding up OK