Does triple index feeding work

[phonoplug]

Hurrah!!!

Many thanks to SkyWalker for sending me his files. I've now had chance to investigate.

There seem to be two versions of 'place.dll' around. One is about 1.7MB, the other 268k. It seems that the 268k version has been supplied separately to the main install package at some point, I guess at a later date, and has a newer file date than the 1.7MB version. HOWEVER. Indexing of parts that will be visioned in more than one shot does not work with this dll:

- With parts in static locations (ie trays), it will always pick from the same pocket regardless of it already having taken a part from there.
- Parts in vib feeders work ok, but it keeps retrying for ever when the tube runs empty, regardless of 'retries' setting.
- For parts in index lane feeders, the first index (when the part is picked) doesn't happen, so you have to set number of indexes to one more than what you need. On top of this, setting number of indexes to greater than 3 (so you actually get 2) doesn't work either, no matter where you set the number of indexes (defining the feeder, 'edit feeders' etc).

Not sure what the supposedly newer version of place.dll was supposed to improve. Perhaps in moving over to the one that works I might notice some other difference, however, being a lot larger, my suspicion is that the 268k version should be heading to the recycle bin quite rapidly never to be given the time of day again.

So thanks to all those that have helped with clues and info over various different threads I have commented in about this issue! Finally one real pain in the 4R5E seems to be fixed! I have attached both files to this post.

SkyWalker - in a previous post here:

Place.dll on all three of my machines is 268K dated 12/09/01

you say you have the bad one on your machines, though in the files you sent me was the good dll.

Also Gopher, in the same thread a few posts up you mentioned having the 268k version. I recommend changing it!

Place.dll here is 268KB with a date of 12/09/01 ....

Incidentally having a copy of all the files from SkyWalker, I ran them and mine all through a binary compare (WinMerge). 5 were different:
- DeIsL1.isu - apparently an uninstall file so not surprised they are different
- Gerber.exe - yours is older though much larger (4.2MB Vs 644k). Mine reports to be V2.8 when run while yours, V2.5. Will attach V2.8 to this post if you want to give it a go.
- Framegrab.dll - yours is a bit newer and marginally larger
- place.dll - already mentioned
- Pxc2_95.dll - yours makes my RVplace crash as soon as it tries to use a camera. I suspect you have a different video grab card to me as this is a dll supplied by the card manufacturer.

[phonoplug]

Wouldn't let me attach gerber.exe to last post - over size limit - so here it is.

[SkyWalker]

Nice work there phonoplug     Another step forward in our collective knowledge - well done sir.

Will get round to looking closely at all my machines and tidy up the software and all its versions by the end of the week.

[phonoplug]

Ok, so the first problem I have found in using the larger size dll (that does multiple indexing correctly) is that it indexes the first component in a job too soon.

Has anyone ever noticed how the pick dwell is longer than normal for the first part on a board, each time you begin to place each board? Well with place.dll that is 1.7MB, its indexing the part before the head has retracted, during this abnormal extended 'pick dwell'. This gives mixed results varying from picking nothing, to picking two parts from both adjacent pockets (eg 2x 1210's which are very close together and picked with a larger tool), to picking the part from the pocket post-index, meaning one part is waisted and the next pick from that lane has an empty pocket.

Both place.dll versions 'feature' this extended dwell time for the first part on the board, but the 268k version indexes the lane immediately as the head retracts so it works ok.

I'm tempted to add a little inline circuit to just delay the data enough so I can remain using the larger (better) dll...

[Mike]

Seems to be working OK - I was nervous about using this part as it was a combination of triple feed and potentially problematic imaging but placing fine.
Noticed that it seems to pause to do the second feed before placing :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YARcM0TVq44&feature=youtu.be

[SkyWalker]

Thats exactely how it should work, the machine pauses at the point of 'settle before place' and the second and any subsequent indexes are done before the part is then placed on the board.

[phonoplug]

Ok, so the first problem I have found in using the larger size dll (that does multiple indexing correctly) is that it indexes the first component in a job too soon.

Now discovered this only happens if you have auto fid correction ticked. If you manually do the fids at the start of each panel, or even run through it manually, but using the 'auto' button for each one, it indexes the first part for the job correctly.

Another bug on the list...