My tool 1 is looking pretty battered, and I've given up hope on receiving the ones someone owes me, so was wondering of there was interest in getting some made.
Gopher posted some costings quoted a couple of years ago, and commented that quantity needed to be above about 20 to get costs down.
Cost then was around £18 for tool 1 and £16 for tool 2, for plastic only ( brass rings can be transplanted so don't see much need to get these done).
If we can get enough interest I'd be happy to put an order in for what people want and some stock & sell on at cost.
Could anyone interested please post here , (including quantity) so I can gauge interest, and any contacts you may for manufacturers.
I've sent an RFQ to a local ,manufacturer for 10x and 25x
..or does anyone have a stash they'd be willing to part with..?
I'd take 2x T1 and a T2 - provided the quality was right of course.
Does someone have a drawing for them?
Quote from: phonoplug on March 31, 2013, 10:26:18 AM
Does someone have a drawing for them?
Yes
http://electricstuff.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=15e921365c9670d33a7cb816931128f3&topic=59.0
I've asked for a quote on T1 initially - T2s should be cheaper, especially if done at the same time.
Does anyone use T6's ? the only difference appears to be the centre hole size.
Dowling appears to be std stock for anyone who does stuff on a lathe and that's what I had someone make some out of. Now the lovely man who purchased our RV seemed to think he would have no problem making his own tools as he has boththese things... My original quotes were form JK Engineering, in the end I needed a small qty in a hurry which I got from http://www.precisionengineer.co.uk/ who happen to be 10 mins away.
I use T6 as my T1 as my original T1 wore out. I have a couple of spare T6's which I'd use if I don't get any more T1's but if the offer is there...
The tip of T6 is about 1/2 to 2/3 the diameter of T1 as I recall, and the hole through the middle is notably smaller - you can only just see through it.
I'd be in for a couple of T1s, T2s and T6s.
I've not destroyed any for a while, but the spectre of 'merged moves' plus my ancient feeders still looms.
(And T1s do seem to wear out, especially if I'm being a muppet).
I've had an estimate of around £30 at 10x and £20-25 for 25x for tool 1.
The drawings I have show T6 and T1 as the same size but a smaller hole. Could be that it changed at some point.
To keep costs down I suggest just getting some T1s with smaller holes. I wonder if Phono's comment above is due to flattenned T1 tops!
I'm emailing all registered members to make sure I get the message to all potential users.
I take it that standard 'plastic' is the right stuff to make them out of? Not brass (too heavy, I suspect) but maybe something glass-loaded for a bit more life / flatness on the smaller ones? Or does anyone know of a magical friction-y plastic that would tend to stop things shifting / spinning on the nozzle?
I'll take what I can get, mind... That said, I've got lathe and mill here - if I really, really needed some, I'd have made them already. All I'm doing is running down my spares at the moment.
Steve
The original drawings say Actal, which is fairly slippery - you want it slippy so parts don't stick, and also not liable to build up static, again to prevent sticking
I've just had a look at those drawing files in the other thread. I wouldn't get them made to the T1 drawing! They won't last long at all. I think this drawing must be an old and/or provisional one.
Measuring mine, the T1 has an end diameter of 1.6mm, and the T6 1.2mm diameter. Considering this is the exact length of 0603 and 0402 respectively I don't think its a coincidence.
If you've had a quote based on the T1 drawing it should be cheaper if the end diameter is 1.2mm as the hole through the centre doesn't need to be so accurate, and even more so for 1.6mm.
Also the T6 drawing doesn't seem to be for a placement tool, but for the part of the head the tool mounts on. Suggest you just get them to make as per T1 drawing but with 1.2 and 1.6mm outside diameter at the tip.
I was planning to look at actual tool sizes before going ahead - just wanted to get a rough data point on price, and see what the interest was before looking in more detail.
The tool 6 dwg isn't number 6 in the files - I think it's only in the converted DWGs at the end of the drawings thread, with a higher number
Id be interested in 2 off Tool 1. At a Price of £20-£25 each.
Quote from: Mike on April 02, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
The original drawings say Actal, which is fairly slippery - you want it slippy so parts don't stick, and also not liable to build up static, again to prevent sticking
I'm not convinced - if the solderpaste doesn't grab the component enough to get it off the nozzle (which it has to anyway, to beat the decaying vacuum - placing onto a dry board fails), I think I'd like to know about it. (Of course, the placer will think that all is well, and just toss the component somewhere unlikely). I see some rotation (a few degrees) on a lot of 0603s - dunno if it's inevitable when the component hits the paste, but the machine certainly knows which way round the component is on the nozzle when it's over the camera.
I'd fund getting (some of) mine made out of , say, glass filled nylon, for research purposes...
My local plastics emporium has
NYLON 66 30% GLASS FILLED (ERTALON® 66-GF30) EXTRUDED Black
Compared with virgin nylon 66, this 30% glass fibre reinforced and heat stabilised nylon grade offers increased strength, stiffness, creep resistance and better dimensional stability whilst retaining an excellent wear resistance. It also allows higher maximum service temperatures.
(RS stock similar as 771-803 - 3m of 20mm diameter, for £27. Materials costs really won't dominate)
or, if we're feeling brave,
SEMITRON® ESd 500HR (PTFE + mica)
(white)
Reinforced with a proprietary synthetic mica, SEMITRON® ESd 500 offers an excellent combination of low frictional properties, good dimensional stability and electrostatic dissipation. Whenever virgin PTFE causes electrical discharge problems, SEMITRON® ESd 500 will provide a controlled bleed-off of static charges while maintaining typical PTFE-properties such as broad chemical resistance, temperature resistance and low coefficient of friction.
I'm not sure what the friction will be like on a small scale - will the PTFE heal over the mica?
I'm no materials expert, but what about Delrin? My tools seem particularly unwilling to have the brass ring glued in and I know delrin is well known for not being able to be glued. As far as I know they look like they might be made from it and I believe its fairly easy to machine/turn.
For all I know 'Actal' may be Delrin?
Delrin is a brand name for Acetal - like Perspex and Acrylic.
If parts appear to be slipping I'd be inclined to look at more suction (bigger hole, or at least tapered).
Quote from: Mike on April 03, 2013, 01:22:29 PM
If parts appear to be slipping I'd be inclined to look at more suction (bigger hole, or at least tapered).
Flattening the bottom surface on a bit of (wet) wet&dry seems to make it better for a month - and yeah, making sure there's no solder paste in there from a mis-place (or pasting fiducials...) is always worthwhile.
I'm always wary of embiggening the hole, though. If I had more nozzles, I'd probably be braver...
I'd still be interested in glass-loaded. It just feels like a good thing...
Quote from: SteveW on April 03, 2013, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: Mike on April 02, 2013, 07:02:28 PM
The original drawings say Actal, which is fairly slippery - you want it slippy so parts don't stick, and also not liable to build up static, again to prevent sticking
I'm not convinced - if the solderpaste doesn't grab the component enough to get it off the nozzle (which it has to anyway, to beat the decaying vacuum - placing onto a dry board fails), I think I'd like to know about it.
I'd fund getting (some of) mine made out of , say, glass filled nylon, for research purposes...
I've seen sticking a couple of times- occasionally when the board was a bit warped so it didn't quit hit the paste full-on, but most severely when placing power LEDs with soft lenses - in the latter case I had to spray dry film lubricant (ptfe) on the tip before every panel. If I were doing it again I'd make a PTFE insert. I've read that sticky LEDs are a known issue among the bigger guys, and some sell special nozzles - not sure if they use PTFE and/or blow-off.
The other thing to watch is when using double-sided sticky film to do trial runs, and it covers a fid when measuring board height - the tool can pick up some sticky.
Quote from: Mike on April 03, 2013, 02:46:11 PM
I've read that sticky LEDs are a known issue among the bigger guys, and some sell special nozzles - not sure if they use PTFE and/or blow-off.
If you have blow-off the problem of stickiness of LED lenses disappears. The reason they have special tools is to save picking on the lens at all - not because its sticky but because its easily damaged and should not be picked on in the first place. The tool is specific to an LED package, and has a recess that the lens fits into so that the vacuum actually picks up on the substrate around the lens.
Best thing you can do with an RV is increase the placement delay. I have it set to 1.5 seconds for one LED package (5050) and make sure I use a tool without the tiny o-ring at the end removed. Places them fine now.