Nozzle fabrication/ordering (Nov '17)

[alanambrose]

Ah interesting, OK I'll figure out how much I can increase the stop by and put it up on here. BTW here's the 1st quote I got for the acetal part of the conical nozzles. Actually these can be black acetal, black nylon, or black 30% glass filled nylon (I remember somebody suggested that) for roughly the same price. Actually there's a warning on the GF stuff that it may warp afterwards.

Alan

[Jason]

As I seemed to miss the last batch of nozzles, I could be interested.
Which size would you have done? I'd take a couple of the each of the two smallest.

[alanambrose]

Hey Jason, sure no problem.

I'll wait a bit before sending an order in to see who else is interested. The Tool 6 / 0402 / 0.4mm nozzle and the Tool 1 / 0603 / 0.6mm nozzle are the same except for the actual nozzle hole so it would seem to make sense to get a bunch of the Tool 6 ones and then just drill out to 0.6mm for Tool 1.

I'm also getting some test 3D prints done by Shapeways (i.e. better quality than home 3D print) in 'Nylon' and two other materials. The plastic bit seems to be coming in at £6-7 (plus VAT shipping etc) in single units. If anyone here is actively using their RVxS right now and therefore can give a more informed opinion than me, let me know and I'll send some along. They won't be here for a coupla weeks yet. You'll need to have some spare brass bushes.

On the subject of bushes, I think it should be fairly easy to make them out of 12mm OD x 1.5 wall brass tube (e.g. BT12/15 from http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm) but I'm sure there's a better machinist here than me who can comment?

Finally my tool / drawing / o-ring spreadsheet fyi: http://anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/RVxS Tools.xlsx. Which brings up two questions - what is the bush with o-rings RVT07 for? And why does the camera tool have an o-ring?

Alan

[Jason]

The camera tool can also be used to pickup.
I'd forgotten about tool 6. If we drill them out I'd probably take 3x type1/6 and 1x type2

I produced a number of brass inserts previously. I could possibly do some more but I
too am not a machinist. (although my current type 2 is turned up from Acetal at home).

[Mike]

I've just sorted out a couple of machines for Dave & Trevor, and they will definitely need nozzles so I'm sure they'll be along soon to add to the order.

[Mike]

Ah interesting, OK I'll figure out how much I can increase the stop by and put it up on here. BTW here's the 1st quote I got for the acetal part of the conical nozzles. Actually these can be black acetal, black nylon, or black 30% glass filled nylon (I remember somebody suggested that) for roughly the same price. Actually there's a warning on the GF stuff that it may warp afterwards.

Alan

bear in mind that the nozzle is the background for vision, so the surface colour and finish can be significant, though sanding/marker pen afterwards may be options

[trev]

Hi all.

As Mike said I will be needing nozzles. Not completely sure what I need but I have been told nozzle 5 is used to calibrate the camera and so needs the white insert in it? Maybe this has already been discussed?

What nozzles are being made?

Trev

[alanambrose]

Hi,

OK - in the 1st instance I've ordered some 3d-printed nozzles (professional prints not consumer-level prints) for tool 1, 2 and 6. These promise to be cheap - if they work OK that is. I'll need to make or buy some brass inserts and probably drill out the nozzle hole to the right size. Actually I was just thinking this morning that the brass insert may be overkill and that, in future, they might just be plastic all through if the prints are smooth enough - which they may well not be. If this approach works, and it may well not, it would be pretty easy to make the plastic bits of all the nozzles - the camera cal one would be harder though.

Alan

[alanambrose]

OK here are the first prints:

http://www.anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/Premium%20nylon%201.jpeg

http://www.anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/Various%20materials%201.jpeg

- there are a few materials left to try but those were my best guesses.

On first look:
+ they dimensions are fairly accurate and spare brass bushes just push in nicely,
+ the detail is not as good as real machined ones - I was hoping it would be a little better,
+ the nozzles need drilling out - I guess I knew this up front
+ the tips of the nozzles may need some gentle smoothing,
+ they seem strong enough, but maybe not as strong as machined acetal.

I'll see if I can find my dodgy usb microscope tomorrow and post some more detailed images. Base cost (w/o shipping & taxes) varies from $3 to $8 p.u. depending on materials.

A.

[Mike]

Will be interesting to see how well they take the stresses of loading and unloading.

[spiyda]

I've run plenty of boards with acetal ones glued together with cheapo superglue, even as soon as ten minutes after glueing !     I don't think they need to be as strong as you might think, all the force is along the axis (until something goes wrong, and in fault conditions, you want the nozzle to fail before anything it hits)

As far as the smoothness is concerned, as long as the camera sees it it as black, I don't think that will be a problem either.  a lot of the nozzle is out of focus so printing lines probably wouldn't show up..

I'd definitely be interested in some of the smaller sizes..

I have some brass tube that could be turned down, but I couldn't find any that was exactly the same both internally and externally..   my lathe is a bit on the big side for machining more than a few..    I tended to re-use the inserts from broken nozzles in the nozzles I turned...

[alanambrose]

Ah eventually found the dodgy usb scope:

http://anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/print%20vs%20original%20detail%201.png

http://anagram.net/nuts/Versatronics/Nozzles/print%20detail%20nozzle%201.png

Real one on the left, 3D print on the right. I deliberately put some tiny fillets on to make it go in and out of the rack easier. Have ordered some tiny drills...

>>> As far as the smoothness is concerned, as long as the camera sees it it as black, I don't think that will be a problem either.

It was the smoothness at the end of the nozzle I was bothered about, will try some v fine wet and dry.

>>> I have some brass tube that could be turned down, but I couldn't find any that was exactly the same both internally and externally..

Something like this may do it, by my calcs 0.2mm oversize on the OD and 0.2mm undersize on the ID:

http://www.tubestore.co.uk/ourshop/prod_2038041-127mm-12-Dia-x-250mm-Unpolished-Brass-Tube.html

may just fit anyway, 0.2mm isn't much .... or this, 1mm undersize on the ID:

https://www.metals4u.co.uk/brass/c2/tube/c30/12.7mm-x-1.6mm-(12-x-16swg)/p13496

Alan

[spiyda]

What is critical is the runout between the inside of the brass insert and the nozzle tip...
It might be fine, but it might be that for the smallest sizes, a final skim of the tip and drill the hole on a lathe is needed after the brass insert is fitted.

[alanambrose]

>>> What is critical is the runout between the inside of the brass insert and the nozzle tip...

Ah yes, I see what you mean.

>>> drill the hole on a lathe

You obviously haven't seen the dodgy Clarke lathe we have here

I have the drilling stuff and the tube now, so when I get a spare minute...

[alanambrose]

Hmm, I had a go at making some brass inserts and also drilling out the small nozzles with tiny drills this afternoon. Not entirely successful - the inserts were OK-ish, but the drilling wasn't convincing. it could be that it needs someone who knows what they're doing The 'Tool 2' nozzles are fairly convincing straight off the printer so if anyone has spare brass inserts and wants to try them out, let me know. Otherwise I have a few more ideas re inserts and tiny holes - if anyone has any thoughts also let me know.

A.